Product inspections with Movley - Amazon Business Tips with Sajag Agarwal- Part 2
August 10, 2021
Product inspections with Movley - Amazon Business Tips with Sajag Agarwal- Part 2
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Transcription in this episode:
[00:00:01] spk_1: Welcome [00:00:02] spk_0: to the seller roundtable E-commerce coaching and business strategies with and er not and [00:00:07] spk_1: amy Wiis. So that's so cool. You basically looked at what are we doing in the modern world that could solve the problems of not knowing what's going on with these inspections, not going knowing what's going on at the factory. And you thought all right, how can I fill in some of these gaps? And so you created a different type of inspection company, a different type of quality control process, a different type of teams. You applied modern teams to your system which I think is so cool and modern technology. Um so that's it's really, really cool how you got into it and how you decided to not just start any old inspection company but take what you knew of modernization and what e commerce needs and demands and make the inspection company that is going to be the solution for e commerce sellers. So let's speaking of inspection companies, can we talk about the different types of inspection companies? Because There's so people don't know, you know, they don't know, a lot of people will just have their supplier, the supplier will offer to inspect for them or they'll have their sourcing Agent inspect for them. They will have, there's like you can order a $100 inspection or something like that on Alibaba, but that's not really, I guess that's what we call cut rate inspection companies and it's not really an in depth inspection and then there's the larger, more well known quality assurance and inspection companies um that are more like yours, but yours is just kind of putting an E commerce spin in a more modern twist to that. So let's talk about the different types of inspection companies and where people might be offered inspections along their journey. [00:02:06] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good questions. So supplier inspections first and foremost, your suppliers should be doing inspections during the production process and after the production process themselves, that's part of their production process. And uh that shouldn't be um anything that takes away from that. So when you hire an inspection company, like a third party to go do your own quality control testing, you're essentially leveraging a third party to check the products. So the point of that is that your factory has a different set of standards. And in addition to that, it's almost like a little bit of game theory. So your factory has an incentive to give you the lowest quality products at the highest price that you will agree to buy. You have an incentive to get the highest quality products at the lowest price um that you, you know, want to buy. So it's literally a direct um you know, they're directly against each other as far as kind of what your intentions are. So what a third party does is the third party works for you and they go inspect your products on your behalf and up to your standards. Uh Your factory is going to inspect their products up to their standards. Now if your factory produces products it is up to their standards. So if they do an inspection it's almost always going to pass because it's you know within their standards. Uh So that's what happens between like a first party inspection or I would say first party more like a supplier inspection and a third party. So third party inspections are done by pretty much any major brand. So if you're a Fortune 500 your Fortune 100 you're doing a third party inspection on every single order at least at the pre shipment stage. Or you have an in house team that does that inspection for you. It's a standard industry process. Uh Regardless of whether you're Apple, your L. G. Or G. E. Or you know any com brand that you know is starting up when it comes down to third party inspections, they're different kinds of third party inspection companies. You have your cut rate ones, you know as you mentioned amy those are like $100 a day. You have your more expensive ones that can be up to like 405 $100 a day. And then model for example we've fallen about 302 and I'll explain why we're able to do that. But when it comes down to cut rate inspection companies in general, what cut rate companies do is they essentially put very high quotas on their inspectors. Just to give you a little bit of an idea of labor costs in china. A lot of people have this misconception that, you know, inspectors in china or in 3 to $5 an hour And that's really not the case. A good inspector in China will earn between 13 to $19 an hour after taxes benefits their hourly wage, everything is considered and that's for a good inspector who speaks english and um doesn't really speak english, but can understand it decently enough to do a good inspection and also um you know, be able to read and write english as well. Uh So that's that's what a normal inspector costs for a well trained inspector. What cut rate companies do is they either do one of two things so that first of all higher, cheaper inspectors that are not trained properly, they don't invest in training, they don't invest in processes, they don't invest in um, the actual inspection inspectors themselves, um, and then they send them off to the factory for today and they pay them under the wage or number two, they end up hiring semi decently qualified inspectors that have some level of training. But what ends up happening is those inspection providers. Yeah, excuse me. Uh, those inspection providers essentially, uh, those inspectors end up going to the factory and they supplement their wage with bribes fraud, things like that. So it's kind of like a mindset. It's very common also in like Russia and India, a lot of other countries there, which is basically, you know, hey, if you're underpaying me, I'll make up my money, you know, somewhere else, [00:05:58] spk_1: right in any industry that's going to happen because you're going to have fraud and bribery and stuff like that. And I know for me, I know some people might go, well, you know, I'm just, I need to save the money. I trust my supplier, I'm going to skip out and I'm just going to do like the cut rate $100 thing. But you know, If you lose, it's for me, I would rather pay $100 extra and trust be able to trust the results of my inspection and know that that $1,005,000 that I put in for that test order of inventory. No, that that's going to be able to be profitable. Whereas even if it's a small order and let's say you only spent $1000 on 100 units or something like that, right? Even if it's a small order, If you lose that entire investment over $100 that you could have invested to me, that doesn't make any sense. Like I would rather know. And the other cool thing that you learn when you do a proper inspection or have a third party inspection company inspect for you is you learn that you learn a little bit more about your factory, right? I mean, I do recommend people do factory audits because you know, it's just you learn so much. But besides your factory audit, when you're dealing with that supplier over time, you aren't going to catch just because your supplier passed inspection that first time with those products that they could have complete personnel turnover in the time between this order and the next door. You never know what's going on at that factory. So if you don't have the ability to visit yourself or inspect yourself, you need a third party that's going to represent you. Otherwise, you could be out all that money. And in most cases people will say, well, amy, I did Alibaba trade assurance, right? I did ALibaba trade assurance. So I'm okay. And I know the dogs laughing right now because he knows he knows he's been down this road. The thing is Alibaba trade assurance. They require you to actually show proof that you've been wrong in some way and if you have a passed inspection, they're not going to. So let's say you did this cut rate inspection, you know how you paid $100 You paid $50 or you had your sourcing agent do it for you or whatever and you didn't have an independent third party inspection and it was passed. And now these products are to you and or their to amazon and they're going to your customer and customers returning on their horrible quality and you're going, what the heck, supplier? What are you doing? Right. And you go back to Alibaba trade assurance and you say this supplier, they wronged me. They gave me these terrible products. Alabama's trade assurance is going to look at your case and it's going to go, you passed the inspection or you didn't do an inspection at all. You basically have no proof that when this product left the supplier, that I was in bad shape. And so in most cases, you can't win the argument and so you're out the money anyway. And a lot of people think of alibaba trade assurance as protection, and it's not going to provide protection if you had no contracts or nothing in writing and you don't have a failed inspection or any inspection with photos to show that those products were bad when they left the factory. [00:09:31] spk_0: Yeah. And just to add on to that, a couple of points real quick. So when it comes to trade assurance specifically, you know, there has to be some source of accountability. And the problem with trade assurances that, you know, a lot of people compare it to like Paypal buyer protection or for example, you go return something on amazon, you're not buying one product, you're buying a mass manufactured product that is being physically produced to your standards. So what happens a lot of times in Alibaba trade insurance cases and you can just look online Alibaba trade insurance on facebook groups, you'll find like hundreds of these cases, so legal legal liability disclaimer. This is what I've heard. I'm not saying this is what happens, but from what I've heard from other people is that a lot of times Alibaba requires their own inspection company to go even do an inspection for the trade insurance claim. And what ends up happening is Alibaba's trade assurance. Um Their inspection services are actually inherently built to pass all your products because they don't properly function test your products. If you go on Alibaba website for inspection services, they put big brand names SGS Bureau vista, all these big inspection companies will only go into the actual specifications of what they tell these inspection companies as far as their deal with Alibaba to do Alibaba's inspections, they only do 123 functionality tests per entire batches. So if you have a 950 lamps that are defective out of 1000 and you happen to choose one good one, your entire order is a pass. And that's really what ends up happening. And when, when it comes down to trade assurance and buyer protection, all these different things. They're not built for large volume purchases. Uh, you know, up to like your standards. So you want to have those standards properly communicated in advance and you want to know how to test for those standards. A lot of times what happens is those contracts are too vague, so they're not enforceable. And essentially, once the money has been transacted, you know, it's um, they have this saying in bankruptcy law in America and it's a very true for international trade to possession is 9/10 of the law. So whoever has the money at the end of the day is the one who wins 90% of the time and once you've spent the money and you've lost your leverage, because you spent it all on trade assurance, you know, you don't have that leverage anymore. So having that accountability is really, really important. And um, you know, when you get that one bad order, we actually did a calculation, you know, you spend $3,000 on the order have to get returns warranty claims or other problems. You end up paying for your inspections for seven years, ends up costing you about almost 910K. At the end of the day. [00:11:53] spk_1: Yeah it's insane. So let's move into um preparing for an inspection and I know that you guys have a really cool thing on your website where they can go visit model dot com and if they're not ready for an inspection you have a preparation guide that they can download. That helps them understand how they should prepare. So that's something for you guys if you aren't sure. But when we're preparing for an inspection um how do I know what should be inspected Because I'm wanting to communicate that with my inspection company. Right? So how do I know if it's a new product for me? How should I figure out what should I ask the inspection company to inspect? [00:12:38] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good question. So a couple of different points there. So first of all, look at competitors. So that's the easiest place to start, look at competitors and look at what product reviews they have. And a lot of people make the mistake. They look at bad product reviews only and that's not true. You want to look at good product reviews and you also want to look at bad product reviews and you want to have tests and systems in place to test for the good and also test for the bad because when something good goes bad, if you don't have a proper testing, you know, spec in place, then no one's gonna find that. So it's very important to look for the good and for the bad, look at customer reviews. Look at customer complaints, look at competitors. That's a great place to start a second way, which is actually one of my personal favorites, is actually working with all of your suppliers to kind of figure out what the quality control mechanisms are. So, and that helped me prepare guide. Um, you mentioned AmY, I think it's page 14. We have 10 questions that we list out to ask your supplier and this can be done like at any stage, but we really recommend doing it when you have, you know, 10, 15 different suppliers you're talking to and uh, you know, your, they're all trying to sell you. Hey, use us, use us, you know, will be the best supplier for your order. That's when they're going to give you the most information. That's when they're going to really try to Upsell you and that's the best time to ask these questions. But basically you can ask your supplier, you know, what do you have, as far as quality management processes? What do you have as quality control processes? Do you have an R and D lab And uh, you know, do you have tests that you do on your products during the production process, things like that. And when you figure that out and you ask 10, 15 different suppliers, some suppliers are gonna give you pretty bs answers. You're not gonna get much info from them. Some suppliers will give you a really thorough answers. Some suppliers, most of them will give you like one or two points here and there. Basically you take all this data you get from each of these suppliers from asking these questions. You can just combine them into one giant were documents, say, okay, Supplier one says do this, supplier to says do this. Supplier three says do this, supplier forces do this. I like all of these. Let's do all four. And then you end up with a really, really good testing document. And third of all is you know, talk to your QC inspection company of course. So like for example, I'm oddly we aggregate data across all of our clients. So when one client has an issue or as a test to the process that we like a lot, we add that to our central database and then we improve recommendations automatically over time. So every time you do an inspection, especially that first one we'll give you recommendations and testing advice based on aggregated data. We get from all of our other clients who also ask these questions to their suppliers and what not. But every product has unique characteristics. So you do want to ask those questions to your suppliers and really dive deep into what that looks like for your individual product. [00:15:12] spk_1: Got it. So what you're wanting to do and in that shell is make sure that you get as much information from your supplier as possible. You look at competitor products and you work with your inspection company who might also have like Mobley does um might also have data on other products that they've inspected and they can give you a really good baseline to build from and [00:15:37] spk_0: then [00:15:38] spk_1: specifics that you really really care about. You want to make those you're kind of your critical defects and communicate those with your inspection company. Um So let's talk about reporting. I think this is the most confusing part. I always tell the folks in my program because we use really great inspection companies like Mobley. So you know I always tell them to make sure that they are Number one expecting to fail because you know every single one of my inspections has failed. Um And it's usually because we've done a good job of identifying what needs to be inspected all of that but it's not necessarily a failed inspection is not necessarily a bad thing. I look at a failed inspection as an opportunity to communicate with my supplier and improve as well as identify the things that need fixing and need updating in my spec documents. So if I have a failed inspection, if I have some kind of problem it's often there are things that I can accept like okay you know these strings for example strings that needed to be trimmed off a product um to my inspection company. They said yeah that's for this type of product that's kind of unacceptable. Um It needs to be fixed across all of your products, but that's an easy fix. I can go back to my supplier and say, hey, let's trim these edges right? Let's make this look a little bit better. And oh by the way, let's add that to our spec document so that when we go back into production, we are making sure that we're checking that on every single piece, right? So as far as um when we're reading reports and if we fail an inspection for products fail an inspection, what advice do you have for for sellers? As far as dealing with that with their supplier, talking with their inspection company, looking at the reports and just kind of overall [00:17:39] spk_0: yeah, that makes it's a pretty loaded question. So yeah, when it comes down to failed inspections, I think the first thing is don't be scared of them. So a lot of people I feel are scared of field inspections like hey we got a field inspection like what are we going to do? And I would also say you know don't be, I don't want to be scared of a passed inspection more so kind of what you're saying there as well. But when it comes down to the overall process as well, uh you know if your inspection company gives you a pass that doesn't necessarily mean your inspection passed because your inspection company will use like a standard protocol in terms of what's acceptable quality limits, how to rank quality defects, things like that. But if you work with a good inspections company like Mobley for example we have all those details in the report for you. So in the report will give you information like okay hey these are the defects we found here is a picture of the defect. This is our rating of the defect critical, major, minor or whatever. And um, you know, maybe the inspector thought this defect was major and you think it's a critical defect which in turns fails the inspection. So at the end of the day the final quality control pass or fail is really up to you. It's not up to the inspection company. So I think that's really important to emphasize. So you know theoretically, you know, if your quality control standards are very high, you know, the inspection can pass every single time and you still say hey to fail. And um, you know, if your supplier says hey, but the inspection company passed it, it's not there, right, Because the inspection company works for you. Is there not uh independent? You know the process and the way the inspect the number of units to inspect that's all dependent on what you want, not what they want. So I think that's very, very important to stress because a lot of people are like, oh my supplier said, well, the inspection passed. Like I don't have anything. No, you you can fail. The inspection is your inspection. It's not their inspection. So that's the first thing. The second thing is when those inspections fail, look and dig deep into the reports, take a look at the defects, take a look at the data collected the raw data. The photos like with molly. We also include videos. Make sure the tests were done right? Make sure the tests were done correctly. Everything was interpreted properly. Look at the data. Look at the hard results and say, okay, hey, is everything classified properly? Is everything according to my standards? That's a great place to start. And then third, once you have all that and you've checked everything and you know, everything looks good at that point, then you want to decide, okay, okay, this inspection failed. I want to get these problems fixed. Excuse me. [00:20:04] spk_1: Yeah, [00:20:06] spk_0: I don't die right [00:20:07] spk_1: away. But [00:20:09] spk_0: yeah, awesome. So, so [00:20:11] spk_1: you're saying that, that we want, you want to have the problems fixed from the inspection and you brought up a really good point that pass or fail. We business owners are responsible for going through those reports and determining what's the best for us. Right? So I love that. Don't just say, oh well it passed good. I'm not even going to look at the report, which I'm sure a lot of people do that. They just go, okay good. [00:20:42] spk_0: It's [00:20:43] spk_1: past. But they don't look at the report and the report might have something that was bad that they would consider very critical and now their products are being shipped out and they didn't get a chance to identify that with their supplier, right? [00:20:56] spk_0: Yeah 100%. I mean just on a legal standpoint so like where U. S. Based company so you can always sue us. But there's a reason that you know customers and business owners can't sue inspection companies for directly because of the product quality because a lot of times what ends up happening is that one of the reasons that reports are very detailed is because it's a liability perspective the inspection company doesn't want to be liable if the inspector misinterpreted something or something happened. Right? So that's why they give you as much detail as possible so you can see how the inspection was done. And um so you know that's one of the big reasons there so just a little bit of kind of some context. But yeah, that's extremely important. So then, you know, once that inspection fails, the next thing you want to do is just work with your supplier, tell them, hey, you know, we're not happy with the inspection results. You don't have to tell them, you know, the inspection report past, but we failed it. No, we're just not happy with the inspection results. Good inspection company for the most part. It's not going to share the report with your supplier. Like for example, Mobley, we don't send those reports to your suppliers. Your suppliers never get your reports. They might get some details of the factory. Okay. Hey, you know, this is the number of units have passed or failed, whatever because we set them aside or whatever. But at the end of the day, what's in that report, the photos, the videos, They don't see that. You see that. And so you can just tell your factory, hey, you know, we're not happy with the results. And um, these are the problems we're seeing. These are problems we need fixed and what a lot of people do As they make the mistake of doing 100% inspection. They're like, Hey, we need to test all the units. If we don't test all the units, how are we going to know what units are bad, which units are good? And that's not really the purpose. The purpose of an inspection is not to check all the units. That's your factories job purpose of an inspection is a random sample. Then you can determine does this random sample reflect the quality of the entire shipment and that that random sample fails. In this case, Then you tell the factory, hey, you need to open up all the units, check everything and fix them. Because these problems that we're seeing in this random sample are probably what we're going to see in the rest of the production order. So fix all these problems, get everything fixed and then you want to do what's called a reinspection. So with 100% inspection, you might end up spending say uh four mandates for an inspection just an example. But doing two separate inspections, you'll save a lot of money if it doesn't fail and if it does fail, you'll end up spending probably the same if not less. A lot less than 100% inspection even one time. So it makes a huge difference. And if you do 100% inspection it fails. You still have to do 100% inspection or another reinspection regardless on a sample size. But then at that point you want to do a reinspection and then you want to verify through another random sampling essentially. Did the inspector uh you know what did the factory truly fix those problems? And you want to go through the sample size randomly again, get the inspection report, go through the same process and then once you're happy with the results it keeps going on and on and on. Hopefully not. But it can. And at the end of it when you're happy with the results, that's when you go ahead and ship that product to your warehouse or your freight forwarder. [00:23:52] spk_1: Got it. Okay. Well those are really really great tips. I think people understand from today's session why they should get an inspection. Why they should choose a trusted inspected inspection provider. What is what makes the trusted inspection provider and what they should care about and how they should handle a failed inspection. So awesome. I just want to shift before we wrap up today I want to shift to you and being a business owner because ultimately we're all business owners and we all struggle and we have to overcome things. So what would you say is the toughest barrier that you've had to overcome as a business owner And how did you overcome it? [00:24:35] spk_0: That's a really good question. So so just a little bit of like quick background. Right? So Mobley gives you a full service quality control team for the cost of an inspection but giving a full service quality control team that understands inspections, it's not easy. So inspections is a very difficult field and uh I would say the toughest barrier that we've had um as a business owner. Um You know aside aside from my Econ brand I was saying Mobley is actually hiring employees good employees, keeping them on staff and then training them effectively. And that's something that you know really really makes makes or breaks the company. So you know for example with our inspection volumes we've been scaling like crazy over the last couple of months, the last two years, three years and um you know making sure that we're able to scale and do it effectively while still providing a very high level of service is really really critical. Now this is more of a service business so it's a little bit different than like an icon business but the same principles apply and what I learned is kind of two key things when it comes to building a business. Number one is feedback loops and number two is process. Uh So and process that um that looks at the y so a lot of people so I'll start with process, I should have switched those around, but when it comes down to process, a lot of people focus their process on, okay, this is what you need to do. This is why you do an S. O. P. This is how you do the S. O. P. And then they complain, hey, you know my employees uh they don't really take initiative, they just kind of go, you know, along the flow. If something happens, they're not able to deal with it and um you know, even though they have the tools they're equipped to do it, you know, they're not able to deal with it. And the reason for that is the employees don't understand the why. And I think that's a big part that's lacking in a lot of processes that is taught by e commerce business owners and things like that in the community. There needs to be a why in the process, Why do we do this on amazon? Why do we submit this? Why do we do it this way? What does this have an impact on sales? You know what not If the if you explain the white your employees and they understand why the process is built the way it is makes a huge difference because now they're able to go in and out of the process and improve the process over time. So now you've turned that employee from um kind of a drone into more of a, you know, active management level person. So I think that's number one really key. # two is feedback loops and this is something that can even be applied in a calm. So for example the mildly uh we have feedback loops at every end of the spectrum. We have feedback loops going to customers. Um in the inspection process, they didn't complete an inspection. We send them a survey. If they complete an inspection, we send them a survey. Um If we worked with the factory, we sent him a survey. Um Those don't end up in a, in the best, we don't get the best ratings on those factory surveys, but fortunately we get really good ratings on our customer nPS surveys. But we have feedback loops engineered into every element of the process. So we're recycling feedback from everywhere and looking for blind spots. And that's the same thing with the E commerce. So when you're doing returns, when you have warranty claims, talking with those customers associated with them, understanding what problems they're having and then tracking that into one central database. One central tool, something like that. That will tell you, hey, this queue is starting to perform really badly. Hey, this queue is performing really well, you know, things like that and recycling that feedback into your inspection process into your suppliers, things like that. Having feedback loops is really, really critical and that helps you scale without being paranoid that hey, you know, we're missing something out here. We're missing something here. So I would say process and feedback loops is probably the biggest two obstacles we've overcome. Um, or, and the barrier, the barrier is um, you know, having effective and effective team structure and the way we've overcome it with is with process and feedback loops. [00:28:13] spk_1: I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, I think we can't, we can't have enough of either of those and your employees understanding there why is so important because they then can feel accomplished at the end of the day if they know why they did something they feel accomplished and that is so important, you know, I want my people to come to work and be like, yes, I did something today and this is the impact that I had that helps fulfill people, so that's so awesome. Um my last question for you is what, well, before after that we got to let everybody know how they can contact you, but before that, what books and motivation, motivation, material, podcast, stuff like that, Are you listening to, what's keeping you motivated right now? [00:29:02] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good question. Uh in terms of general motivation, just model has been growing super, super fast, so that's been very, very exciting for me. It's always a new challenge and uh some new cool things to work on. So I guess that's kind of been my biggest motivating factor, but as far as like books, uh books, one of the books that I like the most is actually the meth. Uh so I used to be a huge Minecraft player, just provide a little bit of context. Uh so my mind really works. It likes building blocks and it likes to build things and build things long term. So I like to look at things in the real world, almost like building blocks. So structures, processes, things like that, even though I'm not really a numbers of process. Guy, like, I don't want to write my own process, but I know we need process. Uh so the e myth was super, super helpful for me, because it essentially explained to me how the building blocks of business works. And before then I was kind of just looking at it, kind of like a giant plasma, you know, just kind of like a giant, like everything is all over the place. But the myth was super helpful, one of the best books I've ever read and basically told me what the building blocks look like in the companies and then I can start making sense of it and start building up a company from that. So I highly highly recommend reading that. Um, as far as other things podcast, joe Rogan joe Rogan always keeps me entertained. Um, aside from that. Um, you know, just books here and there, but those are the main two, I'd say that keep me going, [00:30:25] spk_1: I love the myth. I thought it was such a great book. I just finished it just recently and I talked about it for weeks because it just was so good. And then right now I'm reading Business Made Simple by Don Miller and it's so good to see, you know, the, the author of story brands and stuff like that And then really dig into copyrighting and sales copy and stuff like that. And um, so business made simple is really good too. He describes a business like an airplane and he talks about, you know, your staff and your people being the body and your products, your marketing being the wings and how you keep all those things in balance. And so yeah, that was a really good book lately to that was just as impactful for me as the email. So I love that. Love that. You love that book. All right. Thank you sir, john tell everyone where they can find you and how they can get an amazing inspection or really a whole quality control team on the ground in china for the price of an inspection. [00:31:27] spk_0: Yeah, definitely. So my voice allows me to talk but you can find us at Mobley dot com. Uh, so M O V E L E Y dot com and um if you're looking to book a call with me and you just want to talk about inspections or have questions uh want advice feedback. Just go through the form and uh well we have a link where you can book a time directly on my calendar and I can answer your inspection related questions but it's really a pleasure to be on. Thank you so much amy for having me on. I hope everybody listening found this super super valuable. And um yeah, if there's any questions, anything like that just let me know and also feel free to email us at any time. If you guys have questions in regards to inspections, things like that, whether you work with us or not, just like to be help when we can. [00:32:10] spk_1: Yes awesome. Well thank you everyone for listening today. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. We love hearing from you guys. Thanks for being here and those of you here in the zoom with us. We will take your questions now and I'm going to end the live. Thanks everyone for tuning in live and we'll see you next time on the seller roundtable. [00:32:35] spk_0: Thanks for tuning in, join us every Tuesday at one PM pacific standard time for live Q and a and bonus content after the recording at [00:32:43] spk_1: cellar round table [00:32:44] spk_0: dot com, sponsored by the ultimate software tool for amazon sales and growth seller S c o dot com and [00:32:51] spk_1: amazing at home [00:32:52] spk_0: dot com.
Transcription in this episode:
[00:00:01] spk_1: Welcome [00:00:02] spk_0: to the seller roundtable E-commerce coaching and business strategies with and er not and [00:00:07] spk_1: amy Wiis. So that's so cool. You basically looked at what are we doing in the modern world that could solve the problems of not knowing what's going on with these inspections, not going knowing what's going on at the factory. And you thought all right, how can I fill in some of these gaps? And so you created a different type of inspection company, a different type of quality control process, a different type of teams. You applied modern teams to your system which I think is so cool and modern technology. Um so that's it's really, really cool how you got into it and how you decided to not just start any old inspection company but take what you knew of modernization and what e commerce needs and demands and make the inspection company that is going to be the solution for e commerce sellers. So let's speaking of inspection companies, can we talk about the different types of inspection companies? Because There's so people don't know, you know, they don't know, a lot of people will just have their supplier, the supplier will offer to inspect for them or they'll have their sourcing Agent inspect for them. They will have, there's like you can order a $100 inspection or something like that on Alibaba, but that's not really, I guess that's what we call cut rate inspection companies and it's not really an in depth inspection and then there's the larger, more well known quality assurance and inspection companies um that are more like yours, but yours is just kind of putting an E commerce spin in a more modern twist to that. So let's talk about the different types of inspection companies and where people might be offered inspections along their journey. [00:02:06] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good questions. So supplier inspections first and foremost, your suppliers should be doing inspections during the production process and after the production process themselves, that's part of their production process. And uh that shouldn't be um anything that takes away from that. So when you hire an inspection company, like a third party to go do your own quality control testing, you're essentially leveraging a third party to check the products. So the point of that is that your factory has a different set of standards. And in addition to that, it's almost like a little bit of game theory. So your factory has an incentive to give you the lowest quality products at the highest price that you will agree to buy. You have an incentive to get the highest quality products at the lowest price um that you, you know, want to buy. So it's literally a direct um you know, they're directly against each other as far as kind of what your intentions are. So what a third party does is the third party works for you and they go inspect your products on your behalf and up to your standards. Uh Your factory is going to inspect their products up to their standards. Now if your factory produces products it is up to their standards. So if they do an inspection it's almost always going to pass because it's you know within their standards. Uh So that's what happens between like a first party inspection or I would say first party more like a supplier inspection and a third party. So third party inspections are done by pretty much any major brand. So if you're a Fortune 500 your Fortune 100 you're doing a third party inspection on every single order at least at the pre shipment stage. Or you have an in house team that does that inspection for you. It's a standard industry process. Uh Regardless of whether you're Apple, your L. G. Or G. E. Or you know any com brand that you know is starting up when it comes down to third party inspections, they're different kinds of third party inspection companies. You have your cut rate ones, you know as you mentioned amy those are like $100 a day. You have your more expensive ones that can be up to like 405 $100 a day. And then model for example we've fallen about 302 and I'll explain why we're able to do that. But when it comes down to cut rate inspection companies in general, what cut rate companies do is they essentially put very high quotas on their inspectors. Just to give you a little bit of an idea of labor costs in china. A lot of people have this misconception that, you know, inspectors in china or in 3 to $5 an hour And that's really not the case. A good inspector in China will earn between 13 to $19 an hour after taxes benefits their hourly wage, everything is considered and that's for a good inspector who speaks english and um doesn't really speak english, but can understand it decently enough to do a good inspection and also um you know, be able to read and write english as well. Uh So that's that's what a normal inspector costs for a well trained inspector. What cut rate companies do is they either do one of two things so that first of all higher, cheaper inspectors that are not trained properly, they don't invest in training, they don't invest in processes, they don't invest in um, the actual inspection inspectors themselves, um, and then they send them off to the factory for today and they pay them under the wage or number two, they end up hiring semi decently qualified inspectors that have some level of training. But what ends up happening is those inspection providers. Yeah, excuse me. Uh, those inspection providers essentially, uh, those inspectors end up going to the factory and they supplement their wage with bribes fraud, things like that. So it's kind of like a mindset. It's very common also in like Russia and India, a lot of other countries there, which is basically, you know, hey, if you're underpaying me, I'll make up my money, you know, somewhere else, [00:05:58] spk_1: right in any industry that's going to happen because you're going to have fraud and bribery and stuff like that. And I know for me, I know some people might go, well, you know, I'm just, I need to save the money. I trust my supplier, I'm going to skip out and I'm just going to do like the cut rate $100 thing. But you know, If you lose, it's for me, I would rather pay $100 extra and trust be able to trust the results of my inspection and know that that $1,005,000 that I put in for that test order of inventory. No, that that's going to be able to be profitable. Whereas even if it's a small order and let's say you only spent $1000 on 100 units or something like that, right? Even if it's a small order, If you lose that entire investment over $100 that you could have invested to me, that doesn't make any sense. Like I would rather know. And the other cool thing that you learn when you do a proper inspection or have a third party inspection company inspect for you is you learn that you learn a little bit more about your factory, right? I mean, I do recommend people do factory audits because you know, it's just you learn so much. But besides your factory audit, when you're dealing with that supplier over time, you aren't going to catch just because your supplier passed inspection that first time with those products that they could have complete personnel turnover in the time between this order and the next door. You never know what's going on at that factory. So if you don't have the ability to visit yourself or inspect yourself, you need a third party that's going to represent you. Otherwise, you could be out all that money. And in most cases people will say, well, amy, I did Alibaba trade assurance, right? I did ALibaba trade assurance. So I'm okay. And I know the dogs laughing right now because he knows he knows he's been down this road. The thing is Alibaba trade assurance. They require you to actually show proof that you've been wrong in some way and if you have a passed inspection, they're not going to. So let's say you did this cut rate inspection, you know how you paid $100 You paid $50 or you had your sourcing agent do it for you or whatever and you didn't have an independent third party inspection and it was passed. And now these products are to you and or their to amazon and they're going to your customer and customers returning on their horrible quality and you're going, what the heck, supplier? What are you doing? Right. And you go back to Alibaba trade assurance and you say this supplier, they wronged me. They gave me these terrible products. Alabama's trade assurance is going to look at your case and it's going to go, you passed the inspection or you didn't do an inspection at all. You basically have no proof that when this product left the supplier, that I was in bad shape. And so in most cases, you can't win the argument and so you're out the money anyway. And a lot of people think of alibaba trade assurance as protection, and it's not going to provide protection if you had no contracts or nothing in writing and you don't have a failed inspection or any inspection with photos to show that those products were bad when they left the factory. [00:09:31] spk_0: Yeah. And just to add on to that, a couple of points real quick. So when it comes to trade assurance specifically, you know, there has to be some source of accountability. And the problem with trade assurances that, you know, a lot of people compare it to like Paypal buyer protection or for example, you go return something on amazon, you're not buying one product, you're buying a mass manufactured product that is being physically produced to your standards. So what happens a lot of times in Alibaba trade insurance cases and you can just look online Alibaba trade insurance on facebook groups, you'll find like hundreds of these cases, so legal legal liability disclaimer. This is what I've heard. I'm not saying this is what happens, but from what I've heard from other people is that a lot of times Alibaba requires their own inspection company to go even do an inspection for the trade insurance claim. And what ends up happening is Alibaba's trade assurance. Um Their inspection services are actually inherently built to pass all your products because they don't properly function test your products. If you go on Alibaba website for inspection services, they put big brand names SGS Bureau vista, all these big inspection companies will only go into the actual specifications of what they tell these inspection companies as far as their deal with Alibaba to do Alibaba's inspections, they only do 123 functionality tests per entire batches. So if you have a 950 lamps that are defective out of 1000 and you happen to choose one good one, your entire order is a pass. And that's really what ends up happening. And when, when it comes down to trade assurance and buyer protection, all these different things. They're not built for large volume purchases. Uh, you know, up to like your standards. So you want to have those standards properly communicated in advance and you want to know how to test for those standards. A lot of times what happens is those contracts are too vague, so they're not enforceable. And essentially, once the money has been transacted, you know, it's um, they have this saying in bankruptcy law in America and it's a very true for international trade to possession is 9/10 of the law. So whoever has the money at the end of the day is the one who wins 90% of the time and once you've spent the money and you've lost your leverage, because you spent it all on trade assurance, you know, you don't have that leverage anymore. So having that accountability is really, really important. And um, you know, when you get that one bad order, we actually did a calculation, you know, you spend $3,000 on the order have to get returns warranty claims or other problems. You end up paying for your inspections for seven years, ends up costing you about almost 910K. At the end of the day. [00:11:53] spk_1: Yeah it's insane. So let's move into um preparing for an inspection and I know that you guys have a really cool thing on your website where they can go visit model dot com and if they're not ready for an inspection you have a preparation guide that they can download. That helps them understand how they should prepare. So that's something for you guys if you aren't sure. But when we're preparing for an inspection um how do I know what should be inspected Because I'm wanting to communicate that with my inspection company. Right? So how do I know if it's a new product for me? How should I figure out what should I ask the inspection company to inspect? [00:12:38] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good question. So a couple of different points there. So first of all, look at competitors. So that's the easiest place to start, look at competitors and look at what product reviews they have. And a lot of people make the mistake. They look at bad product reviews only and that's not true. You want to look at good product reviews and you also want to look at bad product reviews and you want to have tests and systems in place to test for the good and also test for the bad because when something good goes bad, if you don't have a proper testing, you know, spec in place, then no one's gonna find that. So it's very important to look for the good and for the bad, look at customer reviews. Look at customer complaints, look at competitors. That's a great place to start a second way, which is actually one of my personal favorites, is actually working with all of your suppliers to kind of figure out what the quality control mechanisms are. So, and that helped me prepare guide. Um, you mentioned AmY, I think it's page 14. We have 10 questions that we list out to ask your supplier and this can be done like at any stage, but we really recommend doing it when you have, you know, 10, 15 different suppliers you're talking to and uh, you know, your, they're all trying to sell you. Hey, use us, use us, you know, will be the best supplier for your order. That's when they're going to give you the most information. That's when they're going to really try to Upsell you and that's the best time to ask these questions. But basically you can ask your supplier, you know, what do you have, as far as quality management processes? What do you have as quality control processes? Do you have an R and D lab And uh, you know, do you have tests that you do on your products during the production process, things like that. And when you figure that out and you ask 10, 15 different suppliers, some suppliers are gonna give you pretty bs answers. You're not gonna get much info from them. Some suppliers will give you a really thorough answers. Some suppliers, most of them will give you like one or two points here and there. Basically you take all this data you get from each of these suppliers from asking these questions. You can just combine them into one giant were documents, say, okay, Supplier one says do this, supplier to says do this. Supplier three says do this, supplier forces do this. I like all of these. Let's do all four. And then you end up with a really, really good testing document. And third of all is you know, talk to your QC inspection company of course. So like for example, I'm oddly we aggregate data across all of our clients. So when one client has an issue or as a test to the process that we like a lot, we add that to our central database and then we improve recommendations automatically over time. So every time you do an inspection, especially that first one we'll give you recommendations and testing advice based on aggregated data. We get from all of our other clients who also ask these questions to their suppliers and what not. But every product has unique characteristics. So you do want to ask those questions to your suppliers and really dive deep into what that looks like for your individual product. [00:15:12] spk_1: Got it. So what you're wanting to do and in that shell is make sure that you get as much information from your supplier as possible. You look at competitor products and you work with your inspection company who might also have like Mobley does um might also have data on other products that they've inspected and they can give you a really good baseline to build from and [00:15:37] spk_0: then [00:15:38] spk_1: specifics that you really really care about. You want to make those you're kind of your critical defects and communicate those with your inspection company. Um So let's talk about reporting. I think this is the most confusing part. I always tell the folks in my program because we use really great inspection companies like Mobley. So you know I always tell them to make sure that they are Number one expecting to fail because you know every single one of my inspections has failed. Um And it's usually because we've done a good job of identifying what needs to be inspected all of that but it's not necessarily a failed inspection is not necessarily a bad thing. I look at a failed inspection as an opportunity to communicate with my supplier and improve as well as identify the things that need fixing and need updating in my spec documents. So if I have a failed inspection, if I have some kind of problem it's often there are things that I can accept like okay you know these strings for example strings that needed to be trimmed off a product um to my inspection company. They said yeah that's for this type of product that's kind of unacceptable. Um It needs to be fixed across all of your products, but that's an easy fix. I can go back to my supplier and say, hey, let's trim these edges right? Let's make this look a little bit better. And oh by the way, let's add that to our spec document so that when we go back into production, we are making sure that we're checking that on every single piece, right? So as far as um when we're reading reports and if we fail an inspection for products fail an inspection, what advice do you have for for sellers? As far as dealing with that with their supplier, talking with their inspection company, looking at the reports and just kind of overall [00:17:39] spk_0: yeah, that makes it's a pretty loaded question. So yeah, when it comes down to failed inspections, I think the first thing is don't be scared of them. So a lot of people I feel are scared of field inspections like hey we got a field inspection like what are we going to do? And I would also say you know don't be, I don't want to be scared of a passed inspection more so kind of what you're saying there as well. But when it comes down to the overall process as well, uh you know if your inspection company gives you a pass that doesn't necessarily mean your inspection passed because your inspection company will use like a standard protocol in terms of what's acceptable quality limits, how to rank quality defects, things like that. But if you work with a good inspections company like Mobley for example we have all those details in the report for you. So in the report will give you information like okay hey these are the defects we found here is a picture of the defect. This is our rating of the defect critical, major, minor or whatever. And um, you know, maybe the inspector thought this defect was major and you think it's a critical defect which in turns fails the inspection. So at the end of the day the final quality control pass or fail is really up to you. It's not up to the inspection company. So I think that's really important to emphasize. So you know theoretically, you know, if your quality control standards are very high, you know, the inspection can pass every single time and you still say hey to fail. And um, you know, if your supplier says hey, but the inspection company passed it, it's not there, right, Because the inspection company works for you. Is there not uh independent? You know the process and the way the inspect the number of units to inspect that's all dependent on what you want, not what they want. So I think that's very, very important to stress because a lot of people are like, oh my supplier said, well, the inspection passed. Like I don't have anything. No, you you can fail. The inspection is your inspection. It's not their inspection. So that's the first thing. The second thing is when those inspections fail, look and dig deep into the reports, take a look at the defects, take a look at the data collected the raw data. The photos like with molly. We also include videos. Make sure the tests were done right? Make sure the tests were done correctly. Everything was interpreted properly. Look at the data. Look at the hard results and say, okay, hey, is everything classified properly? Is everything according to my standards? That's a great place to start. And then third, once you have all that and you've checked everything and you know, everything looks good at that point, then you want to decide, okay, okay, this inspection failed. I want to get these problems fixed. Excuse me. [00:20:04] spk_1: Yeah, [00:20:06] spk_0: I don't die right [00:20:07] spk_1: away. But [00:20:09] spk_0: yeah, awesome. So, so [00:20:11] spk_1: you're saying that, that we want, you want to have the problems fixed from the inspection and you brought up a really good point that pass or fail. We business owners are responsible for going through those reports and determining what's the best for us. Right? So I love that. Don't just say, oh well it passed good. I'm not even going to look at the report, which I'm sure a lot of people do that. They just go, okay good. [00:20:42] spk_0: It's [00:20:43] spk_1: past. But they don't look at the report and the report might have something that was bad that they would consider very critical and now their products are being shipped out and they didn't get a chance to identify that with their supplier, right? [00:20:56] spk_0: Yeah 100%. I mean just on a legal standpoint so like where U. S. Based company so you can always sue us. But there's a reason that you know customers and business owners can't sue inspection companies for directly because of the product quality because a lot of times what ends up happening is that one of the reasons that reports are very detailed is because it's a liability perspective the inspection company doesn't want to be liable if the inspector misinterpreted something or something happened. Right? So that's why they give you as much detail as possible so you can see how the inspection was done. And um so you know that's one of the big reasons there so just a little bit of kind of some context. But yeah, that's extremely important. So then, you know, once that inspection fails, the next thing you want to do is just work with your supplier, tell them, hey, you know, we're not happy with the inspection results. You don't have to tell them, you know, the inspection report past, but we failed it. No, we're just not happy with the inspection results. Good inspection company for the most part. It's not going to share the report with your supplier. Like for example, Mobley, we don't send those reports to your suppliers. Your suppliers never get your reports. They might get some details of the factory. Okay. Hey, you know, this is the number of units have passed or failed, whatever because we set them aside or whatever. But at the end of the day, what's in that report, the photos, the videos, They don't see that. You see that. And so you can just tell your factory, hey, you know, we're not happy with the results. And um, these are the problems we're seeing. These are problems we need fixed and what a lot of people do As they make the mistake of doing 100% inspection. They're like, Hey, we need to test all the units. If we don't test all the units, how are we going to know what units are bad, which units are good? And that's not really the purpose. The purpose of an inspection is not to check all the units. That's your factories job purpose of an inspection is a random sample. Then you can determine does this random sample reflect the quality of the entire shipment and that that random sample fails. In this case, Then you tell the factory, hey, you need to open up all the units, check everything and fix them. Because these problems that we're seeing in this random sample are probably what we're going to see in the rest of the production order. So fix all these problems, get everything fixed and then you want to do what's called a reinspection. So with 100% inspection, you might end up spending say uh four mandates for an inspection just an example. But doing two separate inspections, you'll save a lot of money if it doesn't fail and if it does fail, you'll end up spending probably the same if not less. A lot less than 100% inspection even one time. So it makes a huge difference. And if you do 100% inspection it fails. You still have to do 100% inspection or another reinspection regardless on a sample size. But then at that point you want to do a reinspection and then you want to verify through another random sampling essentially. Did the inspector uh you know what did the factory truly fix those problems? And you want to go through the sample size randomly again, get the inspection report, go through the same process and then once you're happy with the results it keeps going on and on and on. Hopefully not. But it can. And at the end of it when you're happy with the results, that's when you go ahead and ship that product to your warehouse or your freight forwarder. [00:23:52] spk_1: Got it. Okay. Well those are really really great tips. I think people understand from today's session why they should get an inspection. Why they should choose a trusted inspected inspection provider. What is what makes the trusted inspection provider and what they should care about and how they should handle a failed inspection. So awesome. I just want to shift before we wrap up today I want to shift to you and being a business owner because ultimately we're all business owners and we all struggle and we have to overcome things. So what would you say is the toughest barrier that you've had to overcome as a business owner And how did you overcome it? [00:24:35] spk_0: That's a really good question. So so just a little bit of like quick background. Right? So Mobley gives you a full service quality control team for the cost of an inspection but giving a full service quality control team that understands inspections, it's not easy. So inspections is a very difficult field and uh I would say the toughest barrier that we've had um as a business owner. Um You know aside aside from my Econ brand I was saying Mobley is actually hiring employees good employees, keeping them on staff and then training them effectively. And that's something that you know really really makes makes or breaks the company. So you know for example with our inspection volumes we've been scaling like crazy over the last couple of months, the last two years, three years and um you know making sure that we're able to scale and do it effectively while still providing a very high level of service is really really critical. Now this is more of a service business so it's a little bit different than like an icon business but the same principles apply and what I learned is kind of two key things when it comes to building a business. Number one is feedback loops and number two is process. Uh So and process that um that looks at the y so a lot of people so I'll start with process, I should have switched those around, but when it comes down to process, a lot of people focus their process on, okay, this is what you need to do. This is why you do an S. O. P. This is how you do the S. O. P. And then they complain, hey, you know my employees uh they don't really take initiative, they just kind of go, you know, along the flow. If something happens, they're not able to deal with it and um you know, even though they have the tools they're equipped to do it, you know, they're not able to deal with it. And the reason for that is the employees don't understand the why. And I think that's a big part that's lacking in a lot of processes that is taught by e commerce business owners and things like that in the community. There needs to be a why in the process, Why do we do this on amazon? Why do we submit this? Why do we do it this way? What does this have an impact on sales? You know what not If the if you explain the white your employees and they understand why the process is built the way it is makes a huge difference because now they're able to go in and out of the process and improve the process over time. So now you've turned that employee from um kind of a drone into more of a, you know, active management level person. So I think that's number one really key. # two is feedback loops and this is something that can even be applied in a calm. So for example the mildly uh we have feedback loops at every end of the spectrum. We have feedback loops going to customers. Um in the inspection process, they didn't complete an inspection. We send them a survey. If they complete an inspection, we send them a survey. Um If we worked with the factory, we sent him a survey. Um Those don't end up in a, in the best, we don't get the best ratings on those factory surveys, but fortunately we get really good ratings on our customer nPS surveys. But we have feedback loops engineered into every element of the process. So we're recycling feedback from everywhere and looking for blind spots. And that's the same thing with the E commerce. So when you're doing returns, when you have warranty claims, talking with those customers associated with them, understanding what problems they're having and then tracking that into one central database. One central tool, something like that. That will tell you, hey, this queue is starting to perform really badly. Hey, this queue is performing really well, you know, things like that and recycling that feedback into your inspection process into your suppliers, things like that. Having feedback loops is really, really critical and that helps you scale without being paranoid that hey, you know, we're missing something out here. We're missing something here. So I would say process and feedback loops is probably the biggest two obstacles we've overcome. Um, or, and the barrier, the barrier is um, you know, having effective and effective team structure and the way we've overcome it with is with process and feedback loops. [00:28:13] spk_1: I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, I think we can't, we can't have enough of either of those and your employees understanding there why is so important because they then can feel accomplished at the end of the day if they know why they did something they feel accomplished and that is so important, you know, I want my people to come to work and be like, yes, I did something today and this is the impact that I had that helps fulfill people, so that's so awesome. Um my last question for you is what, well, before after that we got to let everybody know how they can contact you, but before that, what books and motivation, motivation, material, podcast, stuff like that, Are you listening to, what's keeping you motivated right now? [00:29:02] spk_0: Yeah, that's a really good question. Uh in terms of general motivation, just model has been growing super, super fast, so that's been very, very exciting for me. It's always a new challenge and uh some new cool things to work on. So I guess that's kind of been my biggest motivating factor, but as far as like books, uh books, one of the books that I like the most is actually the meth. Uh so I used to be a huge Minecraft player, just provide a little bit of context. Uh so my mind really works. It likes building blocks and it likes to build things and build things long term. So I like to look at things in the real world, almost like building blocks. So structures, processes, things like that, even though I'm not really a numbers of process. Guy, like, I don't want to write my own process, but I know we need process. Uh so the e myth was super, super helpful for me, because it essentially explained to me how the building blocks of business works. And before then I was kind of just looking at it, kind of like a giant plasma, you know, just kind of like a giant, like everything is all over the place. But the myth was super helpful, one of the best books I've ever read and basically told me what the building blocks look like in the companies and then I can start making sense of it and start building up a company from that. So I highly highly recommend reading that. Um, as far as other things podcast, joe Rogan joe Rogan always keeps me entertained. Um, aside from that. Um, you know, just books here and there, but those are the main two, I'd say that keep me going, [00:30:25] spk_1: I love the myth. I thought it was such a great book. I just finished it just recently and I talked about it for weeks because it just was so good. And then right now I'm reading Business Made Simple by Don Miller and it's so good to see, you know, the, the author of story brands and stuff like that And then really dig into copyrighting and sales copy and stuff like that. And um, so business made simple is really good too. He describes a business like an airplane and he talks about, you know, your staff and your people being the body and your products, your marketing being the wings and how you keep all those things in balance. And so yeah, that was a really good book lately to that was just as impactful for me as the email. So I love that. Love that. You love that book. All right. Thank you sir, john tell everyone where they can find you and how they can get an amazing inspection or really a whole quality control team on the ground in china for the price of an inspection. [00:31:27] spk_0: Yeah, definitely. So my voice allows me to talk but you can find us at Mobley dot com. Uh, so M O V E L E Y dot com and um if you're looking to book a call with me and you just want to talk about inspections or have questions uh want advice feedback. Just go through the form and uh well we have a link where you can book a time directly on my calendar and I can answer your inspection related questions but it's really a pleasure to be on. Thank you so much amy for having me on. I hope everybody listening found this super super valuable. And um yeah, if there's any questions, anything like that just let me know and also feel free to email us at any time. If you guys have questions in regards to inspections, things like that, whether you work with us or not, just like to be help when we can. [00:32:10] spk_1: Yes awesome. Well thank you everyone for listening today. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. We love hearing from you guys. Thanks for being here and those of you here in the zoom with us. We will take your questions now and I'm going to end the live. Thanks everyone for tuning in live and we'll see you next time on the seller roundtable. [00:32:35] spk_0: Thanks for tuning in, join us every Tuesday at one PM pacific standard time for live Q and a and bonus content after the recording at [00:32:43] spk_1: cellar round table [00:32:44] spk_0: dot com, sponsored by the ultimate software tool for amazon sales and growth seller S c o dot com and [00:32:51] spk_1: amazing at home [00:32:52] spk_0: dot com.