Andy Hates Amazon – The Great Amazon Takedown of 2020 With Joe Reichsfeld – Part 1
Andy Hates Amazon – The Great Amazon Takedown of 2020 With Joe Reichsfeld – Part 1
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Andy Hates Amazon – The Great Amazon Takedown of 2020 With Joe Reichsfeld – Part 1
[00:00:01] spk_1: Welcome to the seller Roundtable, E commerce, coaching and business strategies with and er not And Amy Wiis. Mm. Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Andy are not [00:00:13] spk_0: with [00:00:15] spk_1: And this is still a round table. Number 77 back for a repeat appearance. Who is perfect for this Amazon bitch fest episode? All right, Phil, come on down. You're the next contestant on the Amazon bitch fest. How's it going? Do [00:00:33] spk_0: pretty good. How are you? [00:00:34] spk_1: Good. Thanks so much for being with us today. Um, so I'm going to preface this with my own experience here. So if you guys know me, or if you listen to any of this, you know that I've been in the Amazon game for a very, very long time. At one point at our peak, we had close to 900 skews. Let's just say I've uploaded a few flat files in my day. I've dealt with lots of listings, things like that. Um, Amazon took the liberty to, uh, send out their AI listing bots. You know, in September October, they always do this and, uh, suppressed one of our top selling items, which we normally, you know, net. Uh, you know, anywhere from high to figures to three figures. Um, it's been down for over two weeks. I've gone back and forth with seller performance, uh, and Opens probably like, 30 tickets. And, you know, normally people hire me to help them with these problems. And the fact that I can't even get through this firewall right now is just showing you, um, the level of frustration that I think probably a lot of you guys are going through. I know that I'm I'm, you know, at my tipping point here, in terms of frustration with Amazon. Uh, we have the perfect person here. Joe Joe just testified to Congress, um, in terms of, you know, Amazon and their treatment of sellers And you know, some of the perceived unfair practices going on there. And you know what? It doesn't make me happy to bash Amazon. There's so many great people working at Amazon. There's a lot of great things that do come out of Amazon. There's a lot of people have made a lot of money off of Amazon. Um, so on one side, I'm absolutely grateful for that, But on the other side, it's really starting to look more and more every day, like a bait and switch right. Build our marketplace for us. Um, And then we're gonna crank up all the fees were going to absolutely make it. [00:02:20] spk_0: It's starting to look that way to you. [00:02:22] spk_1: Well, I'm just saying more and more every single day. I mean, the screws are being tightened every single day, and, you know, you know, more of the the Amazon branded, uh, you know, own brands being pushed. You know, if that's not anti trust, I don't know what it is, but I'm no expert there, Joe. [00:02:41] spk_0: Me neither. Neither, but I mean, yeah, it's ridiculous, and the courts allow them to hold themselves above the law. That's the bullshit part about this whole congressional investigation. All they had to do is look at their own records that they have. [00:03:01] spk_1: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. And and, you know, the Here's the thing is I get it right. I mean, if you're listing has words in it. Which was one of the words in mind, you know, granted, this listing has been up for, I think, over five years. Um, so the fact that it got flagged after five years, Okay, I get that. You know, there was There was a few keywords in there like I think I'd best in there, you know, buried somewhere in the listing [00:03:23] spk_0: grandfather for that I have that things that are, uh, [00:03:27] spk_1: right, right? So it's, I mean, talk about a common word, but anyway, so it gets flagged for that. That's one of the things. There's a few other things, but since they never give you specifics and you have to, like, bring out your magic wand and read their minds on what's wrong with the listing, confessed to everything you didn't confess like like like my wife, Molly said, It's it's almost like like they're scolding a child. I mean, really, that's how it feels like when Amazon gets you on something, right? It's like, Well, what did you do wrong, Tommy? [00:03:56] spk_0: Well, I don't know. [00:03:57] spk_1: Well, what do you think you did wrong, Tommy? In a louder voice. You know, it's like that's the Those are the templates that gets sent over and over again. And you throw your arms up you go. Well, I have no friggin clue. Why don't you tell me? Why don't you help me out here? I thought we were supposed to be partners. Amazon? [00:04:14] spk_0: Well, [00:04:15] spk_1: Amazon sells the third party seller. Thing is, you know, we're partners were partners. Well, it's not looking like a partnership at all. It's like [00:04:23] spk_0: you've been in One of the things in the congressional report was, you know, on the to the public, Amazon says the sellers are partners, but within Amazon, we are there. What do they call them? Uh, they seem as competition. [00:04:38] spk_1: Yeah, Yeah, we're there. You know, we get to two, absolutely follow their rules exactly the way it has to be done. If there's, you know, something that I mean, the biggest issue honestly is they can't keep up with you know what they have going on. You know that with covid all the stuff surged. Uh, you know, they can't keep up their using Well, I mean, I just say that that's what that's what's tipped it over, though I think to the point where I mean literally, you know, seller support. Now, if you have anything more complicated than a simple question, they can't. They don't know what to do with it. I mean, they they're just pulling up people so quickly that they absolutely don't know what to do with it. So now we're stuck here trying to trying to read their minds [00:05:20] spk_0: the systemic issue that's always been a problem with Amazon as a seller. Support is not part of Amazon. You know, it's this third party group that they hire. They don't even know anything about Amazon. These people learn about Amazon from you on the phone. They don't learn about Amazon from Amazon. They learn about Amazon from the people on the other end of the phone as they mess up and give wrong information and then find out the correct information to give. And it's it's ridiculous. It's pathetic because you know as well as I do if you call five times in a row, you're going to get three different answers, completely different answers. And they're all going to swear that they know. And the other people were wrong. [00:06:01] spk_1: Yeah, it's beyond maddening. Yeah, I mean, like I said, you know, this is the first time in years where you know, I'm a pretty pretty laid back guy, but I wanted to break things in the last, you know, couple of weeks here because I'm just spending literally days on the phone, writing tickets, updating the list. I mean, it's just It's like, you know, like I told you like I told you, [00:06:21] spk_0: I don't I don't I don't do that. I just get on the phone and and just keep asking to be transferred to a supervisor [00:06:28] spk_1: Well, so they don't They don't even do that anymore. So, Joe, that's the That's the even sad part. So the captive team is gone. You can't ask for the captive team anymore. They're They're gone. They don't exist any Spanish. What's that? Do you speak Spanish a little bit? [00:06:44] spk_0: Call back and ask for Spanish operator. They'll send you to Costa Rica, [00:06:48] spk_1: Costa Rica, Costa Rica branch. They're pretty solid. They are solid and well, so I used to go to college and I went to college in North Dakota. And they have. You know, that's where the catalog team is. So I used to be able to talk my way into the catalog team being like, Hey, I probably went to school with a lot of you guys like, you know, but But you can't even you can't get They won't transfer you anymore. They just will not do it. Yeah, no, they heard that they can get you. Well, that's a That's a whole nother story, right? I mean, I've been I've been reached out, you know, via LinkedIn with people saying, Hey, you know, I got anything you want. What brands? You know, Here's the data. Uh, you know, luckily, I I'm smart enough to know that I'm I'm not getting involved in that, but, um, yeah, I mean, yeah, they do. And you know, so on one on one side, I'm actually I'm appreciative in the fact of, you know, a level playing field, right? If that's what Amazon's goal was, is a level playing field. I like that. I get that. I think that's great. But it's not, though, because of the way that they cherry pick what they're gonna currently in force and who, and you know who they're going to pick as the winner of the losers. [00:07:56] spk_0: Never been a level playing field anyway. They won. I mean, they kicked me off my own listing in 2000 and eight. After I got just got my cue for delivery. They kicked me off my listing because they went to my manufacturer and had the same part made. Yeah, and I mean, it's and this is where it's Groundhog Day. [00:08:16] spk_1: It's the [00:08:17] spk_0: same thing. Every few. Tell us what happened with that Joe. That sounds crazy. So you had a product that was a really good seller. It sounds like I had a keyboard sold really well, they went to my manufacturer. The only difference between theirs and mine was the sticker on it with the name. They kicked me off my listing right about now, actually, Actually, just before Q four, I just got my cue for delivery in. So was this. Like they named There's Amazon basics or No, no, they didn't have. They didn't have those names yet. I don't remember what name they used, but it wasn't. They didn't have Amazon basics yet. They were still kind of [00:08:58] spk_1: Shadow team. They did. They did it to a [00:09:02] spk_0: lot of they did that year. They did it to a lot of sellers. They banned a lot of sellers going into Q four, and we all took our crap and went to buy dot com and made by dot com the second largest AECOM ER site in the U s in, like, six months. [00:09:18] spk_1: What happened? [00:09:20] spk_0: So what happened, Joe, with how did they notify you that you were being kicked off your own list? How did that all come about? I was not listening anymore. I was. So they just removed you. They removed me, and I couldn't get on it anymore. And you couldn't get on the listing that you created anymore. So what stopped you from just creating a new listing? Like what? What? My stuff was in f b A. So they marked it stranded. Done. I had to get it all back. F B A was about 82 years old then. Yeah, FBI was about two years old and just come out of out of about a year out of beta. There weren't that many. There weren't a ton of sellers in it yet. Still, Um, yeah, it sucked. Was that you said it was in 2000 and eight. Okay, Yeah, because I started in 2000 and seven, and I don't remember there being an f b A at that time. I think they had just started and there was just, like a couple of people on it. Yeah, I was I was in the original group, and it was sometime in 2000 and six, and it was great. So it looks It sounds like what happened because you said this happened to some other people too. It sounds like what happened early on when they started f b A. They would find these products that we're doing well, and they would just copy them. They've always done that. Well, yeah, but what did Jeff What did Jeff Bezos say in the His thing was No, you know, we [00:10:58] spk_1: don't know the testimony. Yeah, that's a flat [00:11:03] spk_0: out and Congress flat out, came out and said that they feel he was lying to them, and he was. Then he was. So what do you think that sellers can do? Is there anything they can do nowadays? So what? What do you think that they can do to prevent this from happening to them? Build their build their business off of Amazon and take Amazon's leverage away Amazon? Amazon doesn't mess with you as much when they know you have something else to go to. Right. When you have a brand presence and more brand assets off of Amazon and you have your pictures on other listings on other sites, and somebody steals your pictures on Amazon and you go to Amazon and you say something to them. They know that if they don't do anything about it, you're just going to file a DMCA. You know, they know you're not going to screw around with them. I don't I don't file. I wouldn't file a claim on Amazon on Amazon. Screw that. I'll go file with Google and Trump and notice on them. They can't. They can't say no. This selective enforcement stuff for the fucking birds. It's ridiculous. I mean, it's it's just ridiculous. It's wrong. So what is the DMCA? What do you mean by that Digital millennial copyright act? Uh, it's, uh, I P infringement copyright when you the minute you put up an image or you put up text whether you go and have a copyrighted with the government or not, Um, it's copyrighted. There's a record of it. According to Amazon, there's no record of it unless you took a screenshot or or something. If that image came from my website where I originally uploaded, it belonged to my brand, I can prove that right So, as an Amazon seller, even if you have no presence off of Amazon, post your damn pictures on Facebook. So they're dating. There's a paper trail, you know? Do something. Get that stuff up there. So there's a paper trail. When the paper trail leads to Amazon, they bear no responsibility of anything. And, you know, there's You have to prove it. Well, how do you prove it? They're the ones with the archives, not you, right? And their policies specifically says, Like if you upload an image to our site, we own the image. So if you you can prove that you own the image before you uploaded it to their site, then you have that. So when you file a d m c A who do you file with and what does that look like? Because I think most of us are only familiar with, like, you know, it takes 10 or 15 minutes. You file it with Google, actually, um, and it's through Google and they have a website called luminous, which is the whole database of everyone that's ever been filed. Um, when you file it, it gets it goes to Google. They presented to the other party. The other party has 10 days to respond. Um, Google takes it down immediately, and then the other party has 10 days to respond. If they fight it. Well, then you have 10 days to prove that you filed a lawsuit or else you lose. Yeah. So it's a double edged short. I got burned on that, um, by a Belgian scientist over a website that I had made a noble prize winner of all people even, um, And he stole a website that I made for. It was $10,000. Never paid me. I mean, he purposely screwed several people in the US and didn't pay. I filed a D m c a I one. Um ah. But there was nothing I could do because I have to be Belgian citizens to sue him in Belgium. Belgium could care less. They were actually his financier, the Belgian government, and they could care less. The French posting company could care less. He got his comes around, goes around, you know, but 10 grand's a lot of money. I kissed. [00:15:16] spk_1: Yeah, Well, yeah. Pissed. So [00:15:21] spk_0: if Amazon basically did that to you and you already had your brand built off of Amazon. You would file a DMCA against Amazon, and they have no choice but to respond. It's the law. The way the way the law is written is a hosting company, Amazon. Any of those companies, they if they don't respond and they don't, you know, follow the law. They can have their privileges taken away. Got it, Got it. Yeah, that would be a significant privilege to have removed, especially from Google side of things. And there are some countries that, um, my thing went through. There are still a bunch of companies that that weren't following through on countries. Um, now there's not as many, um, you know, but like China, China, I honors I p and all that other stuff, but they have these little loopholes sewn into it that, you know, if you don't have them close, you're screwed. It's like it's like an N d a. In China, you know, it's worthless. Yeah, you know, and it's not. It's not so much that it's us against them. It's partially that an N d a. Does not, um, it does not keep even here. An NBA does not keep me from making my own copy of your product and competing against you. It just keeps me from disclosing your information to the public. And that's what the Chinese do. They were not telling anybody your secrets. They're just making your product for everybody else amongst [00:17:00] spk_1: the jurisdiction [00:17:01] spk_0: and all that other crap [00:17:01] spk_1: to still, uh, man, it's It's Yeah, it's frustrating. The thing is, whatever What? I'm realizing more and more through my entrepreneurial career. Which Joe? I don't know if you knew this, but I started. Uh, I think my my first endeavor was It was, you know, paper out and all that. But like my first real endeavour was when I was, like, 19 years old, right, which I spun up an affiliate program, and I had I see key bots and, you know, I would, I would. It was back before you know, all this messenger talk and all that. But I was getting referrals, and, uh, you know, it's taken me this long to realize that whenever you deal with a third party as part of a core part of your business right, which you know, which is Amazon, Google, Facebook, all these major tech companies, they can flip the switch at any time, and they've done it. Every one of those companies has now done it to me. [00:17:53] spk_0: Hosting companies. [00:17:54] spk_1: Yeah. I mean, they can just flip a switch and turn you off. So, I mean, when you're building your business, you know, you really, really have to take that into account and try to get into businesses where you're not. So I mean, you're always gonna be relying on Google, right? I mean, Google. That's where people go to search Facebook. It's pretty hard to get away from Facebook in terms of, you know, people want support. They go to Facebook to message you. Um, if you you know somebody's going to buy a product, they go to Amazon. So I mean to get away from those three companies these days is 10% [00:18:27] spk_0: of the world goes to Amazon. [00:18:28] spk_1: No. Yeah, yeah, But I'm just saying that, Joe, in terms of in terms, I mean, it's not Amazon. If it's not, Amazon is Wal Mart. It's a target, You know, I'm just saying you're going to be beholden to one of these major companies. So all I'm saying is is choose wisely and just realize that. You know that. Build that into your business plan. You know, I would have to diversify. Absolutely. Absolutely. Even if you're [00:18:54] spk_0: on. Even if you're spread across multiple marketplaces, they're wrong. They're not all going to screw you at the same moment. You know, you have to be able to. I mean, I asked people this all the time. If you get suspended tomorrow, how are you going to pivot To be selling within 24 hours and communicate that to your followers? If you have. If you have no idea, then you don't have a business. I have an idea when I'm out of stuck on Amazon people buying my website. I mean, if they shut me down, that sucks. But I also saw in Walmart also said that I saw on my website. That's the whole thing. You know, the one thing that nobody talks about in any of these, you know, seminars, courses, all this stupid bullshit for sale out there. Nobody says have a backup plan. What is your backup plan? You know, sitting down and and and going through fail scenarios is part of a business plan. It is. I mean, I just said to my group. You know, a few weeks ago, write down a list of the worst things that can happen to you during q four and and think about how you're gonna react to it. This is I mean, uh, it's gonna happen in any year. This is it. [00:20:10] spk_1: Yeah, for sure is just Just ask one of the one of the people on the zoom call right now. Yeah. I mean, you know, I just I've got a I've got a total of, I think 15,000 units of the product that's currently suppressed, you know, gonna gonna hit, you know, going to hit the fulfillment centers here soon. So I mean, yeah, it's it's insanity. Um, to be beholden to that. Yeah. To their whim and the [00:20:38] spk_0: inventory levels to I mean, that's That's crazy. Yeah. Not only that, when they stopped delivering stuff on time during covid, they were literally holding your inventory hostage because you couldn't remove it and sell it somewhere else. You could. Sorry you were stuck. You know, the only thing that you could do those of us who have been doing long enough and knew how to do multi channel fulfillment, we could multi channel fulfill, and that's exactly what we did. But so many people. I mean, they had no idea what the fuck. Nobody knew what to do, you know, I mean, I remember when you first started it, you spent several days telling her over and over, telling other people how to do it, you know, and it's It's frustrating. It's frustrating. But that's that's part of, you know, starting on Amazon. You've got this long list of stuff that you need to get done to do private label in this tiny little time period, you know, and it's, uh, it's too overwhelming. It's too much to ask for a lot of people to learn private label from start to finish, to learn sourcing from start to finish, learn optimization from start to finish and to learn how to manage themselves. That that's the hardest part for most people, even us today. You know, I've been doing this for ever, and I still have, you know, I have my moments every day. You know, it's just part of part of life, you know, it's yeah, it's crazy. I couldn't imagine just starting with no business experience and jumping into private label. [00:22:18] spk_1: Yeah. I mean, what [00:22:19] spk_0: in another country, you [00:22:21] spk_1: know, all that stuff? Yeah. Another, I think another big thing that people aren't, You know, everybody. When the when the FDA thing went down with the limits, everything everyone is like, you know? Okay, I gotta go to a three pl right. What people aren't realizing is that, and I'm I'm predicting this, but it may not be true. I think they're going to get overwhelmed. I think they they are, they're taking on. They're going to be taking on too many too much business. Because when you're a business person, people come to you and they go, Hey, I got business for you. Say, hey, cool. Bring it here. Right. There's never There's never a thought about. Okay, well, if we bring as many people as we can, our service is gonna suck. And then people will never use us again, right? I mean, so So you know, people keep telling people like you need you need to actually go and watch some YouTube videos on how to ship stuff yourself and hire somebody. There's gonna be somebody down the road who's, you know, not working because of covid who you know, You can pay 15 bucks an hour that will come and ship for you. I mean that. You guys really? Really? If you're listening to this right now, I implore you to really, you know, start right now getting, you know, things like, um, things like, Ah, um uh, you know, label label printers, ship station. You know all these things that I've been merged. I started as merchant fulfill, you know, doing merchant fulfilled. And we would ship 600 orders a day when we first started out. So with my own [00:23:48] spk_0: website clock at night, on the last day of the ship before Christmas, I was at the terminal at the airport with my pickup truck filled with boxes with my two kids who were four and six and my girlfriend's daughter, who was, like, 3.5. And I showed up as FedEx was closing with my pick up truck, full boxes. And I was I'm sure this is never gonna work out. These women came out. They took all three kids. The next thing I see, the kids are in the cockpit of this airplane, waving me out the window and I mean, it was It was really, really cool. I've actually had to have a great relationship with FedEx since that day. [00:24:34] spk_1: That's awesome. [00:24:34] spk_0: Yeah, it's just nuts, though, but yeah. I mean, I know people that tell me I got to go to the post office. I stood in the post office every fucking day during Q four. [00:24:44] spk_1: Yeah, we had We had our We had our mail guy during this time who hated us because we would he would come to our house and and fill his truck. They had to, like, change the truck to like the bigger truck on our mail route just because of us. Uh, he was a crown royal fan, so I took care of him with some crown royal and a nice little bonus check. That's [00:25:07] spk_0: what we do with our UPS drivers. You guys, everything. I [00:25:11] spk_1: got to take care of those guys. Those guys and girls bust their balls, especially during q four. I mean, some of those guys are still working till 11 midnight. They're working hard to close [00:25:23] spk_0: at five, and they're showing up at seven. Yeah, down. If we look at any of the major brands that have grown over time in America. A lot of them started making their own stuff. A lot of them started in their garage. A lot of them started with their own factory, their own manufacturing facility. And that's the thing people always say, Well, I can't import wood from China because it's just so so expensive. It's expensive because it's readily available in the U. S. I imported wood from South America, had it shipped by ship to the Philippines, where it was made into a furniture and then shipped here on a boat and all that came here. It showed up as a dining room table. I couldn't buy wood for the cost. Just would. I couldn't buy the wood here. It costs the cost signatures, all that importing. Wow. But what I explain for people looking for wood manufacturers in the U. S. I said There's tons of wood manufacturers in the U. S that make cabinets and surfboards and everything else or skateboards. But I don't think surfboards are usually made of one. But anyway, and I explained, most of them are manufacturing their own goods. They're not taking on new things to manufacturer for other people. you know, So it's just But you look at the history in America of most brands, and I'm sure you'd find this in other countries as well. Um, that they started in their own garage. They started in their own facility, you know, And they grew from there. And so that's I have a shipping We just did launch in our Master American group. And when I talked about shipping training, of course, I showed them a to Z how to ship on Amazon. But right in there, I was like, You need an account with the Big Three, you should have an account with UPS. You should have an account with FedEx. You should know how that stuff not have an account with them, but a lot of people don't, Joe. It's like I don't know how that works, but it's available to you as a business owner, right? And a lot of people don't realize you can get cheaper rates from ups. Then you can even buy from Amazon if you just open up your own business account with I. So that I guess it was 2000 and 1 2000 when I did that airport thing the guy that was running that branch is now a VP of FedEx, and we're good friends. I mean, I've got him some really big accounts here with clients and stuff. And yeah, and he told me some pretty wild stories, Really wild stories four years ago, Uh, he told me that Amazon was more than 50% of that excess business ups, business and the post office. And their big concern was that if Amazon cut off any one of them on a Friday by Monday, there would be mass layoffs across the country. Their their fleet would be grounded, all kinds of crazy stuff. FedEx freaked out over that. So they made a serious effort to remove Amazon from their flow. And they did. You know, they are working with Amazon, and they they can't. And they started their own fulfillment. They did a lot of different things. It was really interesting to watch. It was really, really interesting to watch and just I mean, I don't know. I remember FedEx. When I was a kid, there was Emery. Emery was one of the delivery companies, and they had this little kid in their commercial and he talked about, You know how they're the best company. And they were cheaper than FedEx and FedEx came out with. Uh, when it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight, they put Emery out of business as the more expensive shepherd with just that u S p which is nuts. [00:29:13] spk_1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and, Yeah, so I mean, you know, going back to it. I mean, I keep telling people, you know, not only the label printer, but, you know, getting the packaging, getting, you know, getting the flow, like, just, you know, learning how to do that. Because, you know, if your three bucks yeah, well, and have some backup stock, right? We have that every Q four, and I don't have no very little sellers that do right? We have What's What's safety [00:29:40] spk_0: stock? I mean, that was Kobe beats so many people in the ass. [00:29:44] spk_1: Yeah, we boom safety stuff. We boom because we had a container full of stuff in our backyard [00:29:49] spk_0: who doesn't have safety stock that he's like a sin. Yep. Yeah, that to me just makes no sense, you know? I don't know. I'm old school. I learned the right way to do things as opposed to the Amazon way or whatever you wanna [00:30:04] spk_1: call. You don't have. You don't have a Lambo, so I'm sorry. You have zero credibility excited. Have space [00:30:10] spk_0: in my garage. [00:30:12] spk_1: Oh, man, Yeah. We're moving away from the Lambo as we are families more into, uh, into, uh, investment properties and things like that. Now we want casual. [00:30:25] spk_0: So Idaho, one of my favorite three pls in Idaho. It's called Verde [00:30:29] spk_1: fulfillment, [00:30:31] spk_0: and they actually stopped taking new clients. Um, probably two months ago, I stopped taking any new clients until January, but there are really good three pl and they're green. Um, there, that's there. That's a great company. [00:30:46] spk_1: Awesome. Yeah. So Nampa, which is the little suburb right next to us? Uh, they just spun up a new fulfillment center. So it's opening in the next, like, 30 days. I think you know it's opening up here pretty quick. So [00:30:59] spk_0: Amazon Amazon is open and eight of them here. Here they announced the first week of September the first week of August 8 fulfillment centers open here by five Christmas [00:31:10] spk_1: Crazy Agnes [00:31:12] spk_0: Agnes is here, and she wants to know Is there any way to find a supplier in the U. S for private label. [00:31:19] spk_1: So Thomas Net is one. They're not Maker's row. [00:31:26] spk_0: Actually, uh, if she lives in the US, call the manufacturing association in the state that she lives in, um, and talk to them that they should know who can make stuff or who's looking to make stuff, um, and deal with the type of product that she wants. There's also uh, m f g dot com is really good. That's a good new database of American manufacturers as well. [00:31:52] spk_1: Thanks for tuning in to part one of this episode. Join us every Tuesday at one PM, Pacific Standard time for live Q and A and bonus content after the recording at cellar round table dot com, sponsored by the Ultimate Software tool for Amazon Sales and Growth seller s c o dot com and amazing at home dot com.